Julie Sawchuk
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Julie Sawchuk, B.Sc., B.Ed., RHFAC, is a best-selling author, professional speaker and designated Rick Hansen Foundation Accessibility Certification (RHFAC) professional. Julie combines her experience of living with a spinal cord injury with her passion for helping people make smart decisions when planning for accessibility.
After completing the construction of her own fully accessible home, Julie wrote Build YOUR Space - How to create an accessible home for you, your family and your future. Julie’s home is the only showcase of Universal Design that demonstrates how accessibility is not just functional, but also beautiful. Reading Build YOUR Space will help you make decisions about design and construction that allow for reduced physical energy needs, improved safety, increased independence and the preservation of dignity.
In her second best-selling book, Building Better Bathrooms , Julie and her team of Samantha Proulx and Jane Vorbrodt help readers learn the “why” and the “how” for accessible bathroom design and construction.
Julie has consulted and completed RHFAC ratings on a variety of projects including libraries, recreation centres, apartments, restaurants, small town shops and international airports.
Julie also teaches the program Building Without Barriers, the online platform for Accessible Design & Construction. Courses are offered to architects, OTs, trades and homeowners alike and include Accessible Home Design, Accessible Bathroom and Accessible Kitchen Design and Construction.
As a professional speaker and author, she shares her message about accessibility and inclusion with students, businesses and organizations across Ontario. When you work with Julie, you will enlighten your team, inform your designs and build without barriers.
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S01E18 Julie Sawchuk.mp3 - powered by Happy Scribe
Welcome to the Enable Disabled podcast. I'm your host, Gustavo Seraphine. I was born with a rare physical disability called PFG. My journey has been about self acceptance, persistence and adaptation. On the show, we'll explore how people experience disability. The stories we tell ourselves can both enable and disable our vulnerability is the foundation for strength and why people with disabilities can contribute more than we imagined. I hope that leaders, companies, clinicians, families and friends will better understand our capacity to contribute to the world and help enable us to improve it.
Julie Sawchuk is a best selling author, professional speaker and designated Rick Hansen Foundation Accessibility Certification Professional. Julia is using her experience of living with a spinal cord injury to help make buildings and homes more accessible. Julie and I talk about some of the most important lessons she learned after her injury and how important it is to just listen, we explore the importance of exercise and staying fit. Our physical therapist helped her keep improving the quality of life and why accessibility is so important for everyone's private home.
Before Julie even returned from the hospital, her best friends had already installed ramps in their homes. If you're enjoying the show and want to help us be sustainable for the long run, we'd really appreciate it if you could share the podcast with one other person you think would enjoy it. Thank you so much. Hope you enjoy the episode. Julie, welcome to the show. It is so awesome to have you here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Really excited for this conversation.
Hi, Gustavo. I am so honored and humbled to be invited to be your guest. I've been listening to all of your other episodes and. When you have some deep thinking. Active, amazing guests. So, like for you to invite me is just mind blowing.
Thank you so much. And like I told you, you're very welcome. I think you fit right in with everybody. I think you're doing some incredible work. And, you know, we I saw your presentation at the Liverpool concert livable event at the concert. It was a rain event where a concert can't wait.
It was phenomenal. Your presentation was great, but I bought both your books after I heard you speak. And so I think we have a lot to talk about. So let's let's jump right in. Right on. OK, so I want to we're going to the listeners should go to your blog, which we will link to in the show notes, and we'll talk about that later. But you have written very eloquently about. What happened to you, you know, and the accident that you were in and you're using a wheelchair now and you've done some amazing things since then.
So I would encourage all of our listeners to go read that blog. What I would like to ask you with respect to that is if you were to meet somebody tomorrow who was going through, they either had just been in some type of a traumatic injury accident or were facing a new disability, what advice would you have for them based on your experience?
As as you started answering that question, I put myself. Beside the bed in the hospital, and I see myself in that bed and I'm sobbing, right, so so this person that I've just met then is sobbing and. My gut reaction is to just sit there and listen to them. And. Kind of like my stock answer when people have asked me this, what would you tell somebody is it's it gets better. But. Because it does it does get better being being in a new situation where your life is just completely flipped upside down, inside out backwards, like.
Never in a million years do you think that will happen. It's the shittiest time that you can go through and you have no idea how you're going to get through it. What through is going to look like and how you could possibly be capable of it, right. And it's so awful because you you can't control your body, you have to relearn how to empty your bladder and your bowels and put on socks and and move. And it's so hard.
But it gets better and but the only way it gets better is if you tell yourself that you can let it get better. I don't know, it's a. It's a crazy mindset thing that I have learned so much about in these these years, these past five, almost six years is. Letting yourself be positive, but also cutting yourself some slack. I don't know if. Like you said, I've been writing and I have been writing since I was in intensive care.
I just had to get it out of my head and that was my therapy. And I still write, but I also talk and it's just getting it out just so so I would. I go back to one of the nurses that I had when I was in rehab and the best night of sobbing that I had was with her because she just listened. And so you need to find your people who will just listen. And know that it gets better.
Thank you. And that's. It's profoundly empathetic answer. It's one that is so important that I think we forget is just listening and just being there for the person and, you know. Consoling them or you find your own resilience, right, you find your own your own way through it. I was born with my disabilities, so my experience in that sense is very is very different because this is all I have known, so. But to hear that, to say it gets better to see, I mean, I think on your YouTube channel, you have some great videos showing you like working out.
And one of your blog posts is like you're going to get stronger. And just to see that side and showing that side is is really it's it's it's it's inspirational in the best sense of that word. Like it it motivates me to also want to get stronger when I get better, to keep pushing myself to know that there's more there's more there. That's untapped potential inside of us.
And I'm really proud of myself. When I when I watch those videos, I remind myself how hard I have been working and the difference that it's making. And it helps it helps me keep moving forward with my with my physical abilities to be stronger, to gain more core function and try new ways of doing physical therapy and new types of exercise, because you don't you don't know what you're capable of unless you ask your body to do it. And that's so that's what I just keep doing.
Me and my therapist and my group of fitness women friends, we just keep asking ourselves, are asking our bodies to try new things and to be stronger. And that helps in so many ways, like not just physically getting around. The it's a big mental health thing, independence. Capability.
Yeah, absolutely. I think of it. I know it's not the best analogy, but there is some truth to it, too, like when you're learning something. New, physically, like, I don't know if you've tried playing wheelchair tennis yet, but I remember when I first learned tennis or any new sport or any new thing, right. It was always super awkward. It took me longer to pick it up that it took most people. But then there was eventually like a curve that I hit where once I got it, I, I progressed really fast.
It just took me longer to get it initially and I had to work through that really awkward period and get comfortable with that.
Yeah, I haven't tried wheelchair tennis. I mean I have in that I have picked up a racket and I have attempted to do that thinking all the while, what am I going to do to my shoulders doing this? But I relate to that in my core strength in in getting stronger, that it seemed like it it took forever to reach this point where all of the sudden I am doing things that I wasn't able to do before and that I still can't do it entirely.
But that's like putting both my arms out in front of me and not falling forward like I would be like out to here. And now I've got my arms that much closer out in front of me. Right. And it's it's just these little incremental changes. And that's the other thing about putting that kind of stuff up on YouTube or on your Instagram feed or however you track your progress. Right. And then you can look back and go, holy cow, I couldn't even sit up straight.
And to see the strength in the shoulders that I have now compared to the strength that I had back then and it's like, yeah, OK, it's working, I got to keep doing it.
Absolutely. How did you. How did you find or how did you get comfortable with the therapist and the fitness people that you that you started working with, did you bond with them right away or was it like trial and error where you had to try different people?
No, it was not trial and error. It was purposeful that the therapists that I work with, they were my physiotherapists before my injury, when I had whatever I used to call it, report card shoulder, because it was from mousing, from writing report cards as a high school teacher. And I'd see them every once in a while and they'd fix me up. And so I knew they were great guys and. It has just been so amazing working with them because they.
Are are willing to learn and and we basically experiment on myself. OK, let's let's try standing this way this time. And that didn't work very well, so. All right. We're not going to give up. Let's try it a different way and let's get out this piece of equipment or let's strap you in with pillows and belts with clasps, and you'll hold on to this thing this time and try standing that way or we'll use this walker. And it's just been.
It's like a Problem-Solving thing, I by my nature, I am a problem solving kind of brain. That's how I work. And so to work with another person who has the same desire to problem solve, I'm just this giant puzzle that we're trying to put back together. And so so he and I have just been doing that. We try fitting in different pieces every week when we are able to actually be together, but there's a lot more to it than just the physical work.
Right, it's it's just being able to be myself. And be comfortable and like we we have had these very emotional conversations about life, and that has been such a big part of. The like the mental health therapy part of it, because it's not when you have a spinal cord injury, it's not just your body, right? It's not just not walking. It's all of this other stuff that goes on and dealing with pain and dealing with the fact that your body doesn't do what it used to be able to do and you therefore can't do the things that you used to be able to do.
And you have to find that path. And he's way. Works so well together that it's just been a real gift.
That sounds amazing. Uh. Seems like an incredibly again, just the empathy, the the creativity, just the ability to sit there and just listen to you and let you get out where you need to get out to progress, that those are the moments that you. I see I had some incredible trainers and physical therapists as well, where it's very similar, it's like let's try this today and see what happens and see how your body reacts. And, you know, my right hip is fuzed, so I compensate with awe.
And so getting the core stronger is how I'm going to walk better. So yeah, it's it's being able to look at. You can't just say, well, this is how a body is supposed to move, because that's how that's about how I move. That's not how that's not how you move. And to be able to work outside of that and expand its beautiful.
And when when I tell you more about my like my geographical situation, I'm in a town of a thousand people, I live outside of a town of a thousand people right near a village. And so my therapist is 20 minutes north in a town of. I don't know, maybe seven thousand like we're in southwestern Ontario, where it's a good, solid drive of an hour to a city where there might be a physiotherapy clinic who has more than half a dozen people with spinal cord injuries.
So the. Just like the numbers of the experience of working with people with spinal cord injuries, it's just it's not in small town Ontario. So to be able to work with people who are like, game on, let's. Let's work. This has just been and I'm not like, oh, Julie, it's going to be OK, kind of. Go away. I don't want that make me work, that's what I want.
That's awesome. So I think that's a good transition. Again, your your. All the physical the physical abilities that you've gained, the mental resilience adaptation process, you also have gone and become a speaker. You've written two books. They're both outstanding. I would love to dove a little bit deeper into both of them, if that's OK.
Yeah, absolutely. Three books, actually, but I've only I've only read two, so I have to I have to get the third one. Well, so the titles. What the titles of the three books.
So there's they're kind of in backwards order. So the first book that I published is called Build Your Space, and that is it's about building an accessible home and the process that we went through to design our wheelchair accessible home there, there just wasn't any good information out there. And I did a lot of research and visited a lot of people's houses and I got to write this down. So so I did that and I got it. I got it out there.
In the meanwhile, I was also writing Roadmap to Recovery, Finding Your Way Forward after a spinal cord injury. And I was writing that with assistance from spinal cord injury. Ontario, which is our provincial, not for profit organization, who helps people with spinal cord injuries, new injuries. And so we got a grant, a provincial grant to publish what I had already been writing. And so that's my second book that is available for free for download from my website.
I learned so much like you don't know anything about a spinal cord injury unless your best friend or your brother has one. Right. Nobody really knows what it means to have a spinal cord injury until you have one. And then all of a sudden you know nothing. And and you're like, who are all these people? I didn't I'm embarrassed to say this, but I didn't know what an occupational therapist did before I had a spinal cord injury at the ins and outs of insurance and what it actually means to.
For your body to be paralyzed from the chest down, like it's not just not walking. So in all the questions and. Anyway, so that that's book number two and then book number three, which just came out a couple of months ago, is building better bathrooms. And like you said, I'm a speaker and a lot of time in bathrooms, taking pictures of bathrooms, talking about bathrooms. Today, actually, I was at a recreation center and we were going through the whole recreation center and I actually had three of the facilities staff with me.
And so we had some fabulous conversations about bathrooms. And there were two bathrooms in the building that had been looked at relatively recently renovated. And I said to the guys, so when was this bathroom renovated? And they're like, oh, not that long ago, maybe maybe two, two and a half years. I was like, oh, OK. Has anybody caught on to the fact that those accessible stalls actually don't have any gropers in them? They put up the tile, they put in the toilet paper holder, they put in the toilet.
Oh, it looks good. We're done there. And they're like, oh. There are there and I'm like, no, I said, so if I had a book that would help, you know, exactly where to put those grabbers up, what you find that helpful. And they were like, oh, yeah, that would be great. And they said, good, because I wrote it and it's in my car and I'm going to get it for you.
So I signed it to Tony and the staff at the recreation center and he was honored and he said, you know, why would we not do something if we could make it better? Why would we not do that? And I said, absolutely, and I'm so honored to have been. Able to be there and have the conversations with the people who are actually able to make the difference because Gustavo, that's what I have learned, is the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.
And and the right hand is the people who need accessibility. And the left hand are the people who, like, physically put it together, they either design it or they build it or they renovate it and they are never the same people. The people who put the grab bars on the wall or install the toilet roll are not the ones who need the accessibility of that feature. And the people who need it tend to not talk about it or if they talk about it, they're not talking about it in a way that allows people to hear what they're saying.
And your approach with this, Tony, right today was phenomenal. I mean, what is the way you just describe that was was perfect and his attitude was perfect, too. I mean, it was just like if we can make it better, why would we not do that? I mean, that's the million dollar question, right?
Yes, exactly. And and I think that why it's not happening is, OK, it is happening. I don't want to I don't want to make it seem that it's not happening. But there's still lots of gaps. There's still lots of mistakes that get made, spaces that aren't big enough or doorways that aren't wide enough or grab bars that are installed upside down and backwards. And you just go it. But it's because. It's because they don't know and it's not malicious ignorance, it's not.
Well, I'm just going to do whatever it's like they genuine they genuinely think that they are doing something that will be helpful, not knowing that it's backwards and and to see I know your I saw your YouTube stream a couple of weeks ago where you were in the bathroom and you showed how you got in and out of your wheelchair and talked about the grab bar design and the emergency button and all these aspects of this bathroom that most people don't think about.
And like, I had never seen that. Right. And. I thought it was great because I saw. I'll bring you here because I think some it takes some strength to transfer from a chair to the to the toilet, pretty much just using your upper body. That was that was A was impressive. And B, I got to see, OK, this is why you need these things here. Like, it totally makes when you see it.
Some people are visual learners and they see it for themselves that it just clicks and it all just falls into place after that.
Yeah. Because when you. When you have always been able to stand, pull up your pants, you don't think of anyone doing it any differently. And. These kinds of conversations. Don't get into the public realm. Right, we already and I talk about this in building better bathrooms, we already don't talk about what happens in the bathroom when our bodies work normally, quote unquote. Right. But then you add on that layer of bowel and bladder dysfunction like I have, then you definitely don't talk about it.
The only people that you do talk about it with our therapist, if you're that close to them or somebody else with a similar condition as somebody else with a spinal cord injury, and then that's all you talk about is how you manage your bell and your bladder. Right. So they are uncomfortable conversations. And I I guess I have just like. Decided to put that hat on, and I am the person that is going to make you have an uncomfortable conversation with me, because I'm going to tell you why I need the crappers on either side.
And it's about pulling up pants and why why the gap in the front of the toilet seat is so very helpful. And it's about being able to get a catheter in between my legs and the hand in between my legs because I can't stand, because I can't be. So I don't know, I, I think if I were in an if I were like. I don't know, maybe like six years ago, me, I don't know, maybe not even though I used to be a biology teacher, so body stuff was never like, you don't talk about it.
I was always like, oh, penis, penis, penis. But. I'd like to say I would be embarrassed if I knew myself now, back then, but I don't think I would be because I think this is just so important that we do need to talk about it. And I guess I. I don't know, for some reason, people listen and I don't. I don't always get that, but people hear me and I. I feel shy about it, but I'm also proud about it at the same time, you should be proud about it.
I think it's there's an authenticity to it. And there's a I mean, why are we. But my my thinking on that is like people people tell me things that they don't tell other people and sometimes coworkers, coworkers would just be like, oh, there goes gas again. Like, I don't know how he does it, but they're just like spilling the beans about stuff. And and I my best guess is. I can't hide my vulnerability. People see my disability as vulnerability, and I cannot hide that.
There's just no way to do it. So when they see that, I'm OK with it. They want to talk about it, I openly talk about it, and then that opens them up to to share their vulnerabilities that you don't always see. And I think that that word vulnerability is really important and having those difficult conversations. We've we've learned to do it because that's part of our adaptation and it's super important and you mentioned that, too, in building your space, that you were having vulnerable conversations with the designers and the builders and the architects.
Like, I'm really curious, what did those conversations look like? Was it vulnerable for them because they were admitting they didn't know? Or was there more to it?
I think it was more the vulnerability on my side and then the realization on their side, like I have these fabulous little cubs that are flip out cabinets beside the toilet that are tucked into like between the joists. So it doesn't jut out into the transfer space. And I can I can put my wife's and my gloves and my catheters and they're hidden. And so to talk to my builder and for him to come up with that design, it was just like you get it and you heard me and it's fabulous.
So. It being being open and. Vulnerable to tell them what I what I what I need to hide. Just because I don't want to look at it every time I go into the bathroom. My husband doesn't want to either. And and. Yeah, you just put it out there and then they just have these little little light bulb moments of, right, OK, I, you know, I, I kind of wondered how your body works, but I didn't really want to ask.
So now I know. And we just move on. Solve the next problem.
That's terrific news, do you see that with, um, with most of the design, with like most of the designers and the architects and builders that you've interacted with, or is it is it like anything with human beings? It just varies by the person.
I have a really easy job. And the reason why I think it's really easy is because I only seem to work with people who want to know and want to make a difference. I, I don't have a company. I am me, I'm just me. So I only have so many hours in a day and I only work with people who are ready to learn how to do things differently. So they're already in a place of knowing that maybe they haven't been getting it right and maybe there is something that they can learn and add to their Rolodex of tips and tricks for helping a person build their space, whether it's a commercial space or their own home or whatever.
And so they're all they've already got that door open to being willing to take in new information. And that's why I like speaking at the conference where where we met. They're there because they want to learn. And so. So it's easy and they they then go, right, OK, I never thought of it that way. And. Yeah, that just seems to be. The line that I get most often is I never thought of it that way.
So how does how have you been trying to impact like so for example, commercial spaces are one thing, and I know that the laws in Canada are a bit different than here, but it sounds like there is you're meeting more and more people that want to make the difference, that want to make things better. What do you typically tell somebody? Like when when you're dealing with a private home, right. As a single family residence, maybe it's new and they haven't thought about accessibility.
And it's like, why should I do this? No, no one in my family has a disability. And, you know, I don't know anybody who has a disability. So why should this why should this matter to me? Why should I? Why should I? Take these extra steps to do these things, to make to make my home accessible, because you just don't know what life is going to throw at you. And you think it's not going to happen to you, but it might not be you, but it'll be your parents or your siblings or your friends and.
It's. Hard to not be able to welcome somebody into your home. My best friend put two of my best friends put ramps in to their homes before I even came home from the hospital. Well. And. I was just like, oh, I want to cry, right, because it just makes such a difference to have a visible home. And when your home is visited, also, you have no steps to get in and you have a bathroom that someone can access, so it's on the main floor, it's big enough.
The door is wide enough. Right. That's a visible home, which is like the bare minimum of accessibility. And when you but when you have that already, then you are setting yourself up for success down the road because you don't have to rip out your steps, put in a ramp, put in a lift. The other thing is, oh, well, I want to have a front porch. And if you you've seen the front cover of your space.
That's my front porch. It's a beautiful red door with nice big windows. And it's a covered porch. Like, it doesn't matter that it doesn't have steps, but setting yourself up a hundred percent of people at some point in their life are going to have a disability. Whether it's long term, short term. You'll you'll just be ready. I, I have so many leg irons in the fire of of clients, future clients, hopeful clients, one who wants to build like condominium style, accessible like one hundred percent accessible.
And I'm just like, yes, like let's do this and. Customizable to right. Not everybody needs the grab bar like I use a grabber, some people need it to be on an angle. Some people need it to be vertical. And then the other is, is a family who is a multigenerational family and the mother in law is going to be living in the home with them, and she's right as rain and perfectly fit. But she also knows that she is going to age and that.
That's another uncomfortable conversation is thinking about what might happen and and allowing yourself to not just stuff it back down and pretend it might not happen, but be ready for it. So one of the examples that I talk about in my home design is the fact that we put electrical in the ceiling of the bedroom and in the bathroom in case I need a lift when I'm not when I no longer have my box shoulders or because I bump my shoulder and I have dislocated it or whatever is going to happen, fall out of my chair and whatever.
I don't like to think about that, but. You want to be in a spot where you can deal with it without having to rip the drywall down or off the ceiling or whatever you want to be able to deal with it. So that was one of the one of the things that we did was we put that plug in the ceiling so that it's ready to plug in a lift if I need it. Hopefully I won't. So it's just. Gently pushing people to think what might be.
Not saying that it's going to happen. But if we are ready for it, we'll be able to deal with it in a much better headspace because we're prepared. And I mean, you can't prepare for everything. By no means, but wouldn't it be better to be prepared for some things than for nothing?
Absolutely. And wouldn't it be better if you don't again, you don't know maybe your your son or your daughter or your new coworker? Maybe maybe they're using a wheelchair. Right. Or maybe in. And wouldn't it be great to be able to welcome that person into your home and to say, yes, I am I am thinking about the wellness of a greater variety of human beings rather than just. Myself or myself in two or three other people, I think that ultimately I think that's huge.
Know, it's really important thing to do. I. Was talking to several friends from college recently and asking them, I went to college and from ninety four to ninety eight and it was a good school in Chicago, and I don't none of us remember ever seeing one person using a wheelchair in college. Baffling to me and and I don't know how that person, if they if there was one, would have been able to get around on that campus at that time.
I was just at my university campus like last year, and it's like red brick cobblestone sidewalk everywhere. And I'm like rolling along, right, thinking, holy cow, what on earth would my. They have been like, if I had been using a wheelchair back then, ninety two to ninety six and all the buildings are old, they all have steps, know the lecture halls, all have stacks and life is just exhausting. And then you add the architectural inaccessibility of our built environment on top of that.
And it's just like I, I was saying to somebody recently how my work has really changed with the pandemic and not going out to speak, but instead speaking this way so that I can speak to you all the way in Florida. Right. So I thought like I've been speaking to schools and they're like three counties away. I never would have been able to speak to them then. But what it means is I can speak to three schools in one day instead of just being able to travel, find a bathroom, blah, blah, blah.
Right. Get in and out of the building. All that's exhausting. And instead, I can be speaking to a group and say, hold on, just talk among yourselves for one minute, roll 10 feet to my bathroom, use my bathroom and be back in three minutes and. Yeah, I'm not seeing faces and I miss people, but I love my house and then I can just. Now, I have to stress about peeing because it's like.
It's the first thing I think about in the morning, where am I going today and what bathroom am I going to use? And that's like, no pun intended, a shitty way to go about your day.
It's. And I have that. Especially when I travel that practical, planning it all out in your head and figuring out, OK, if this happens, how am I going to deal with it and how much walking am I going to have to do here? And am I going to be able to. To get into that Uber, if it's a if it's a if it's a van and not a car and I can't get up there by myself and the Uber driver is not going to help all these little practical things that come into play when when you have to be in new environments that you're not familiar with.
We were just talking about travel. My husband and my kids and I, we were you know, hopefully we're going to be able to travel again and. I want them to travel, I want my husband just. I want him to take the kids and just go like go to Greece or go to France and just leave me at home, I'm a pain in the butt. Like all this accessability stuff is just so challenging. I just want you guys to go and have fun and see the world.
And they're like, yeah, but we'll figure it out and.
How are they?
They are my. They are my wheels like, yeah, I have this wheelchair that gets me around, but they keep me going. And. That's pretty cool.
That is true, that's that's incredible, and I used to do the same thing with my brother and my friends is like you guys, when I go, you know, go out, go to that, go to that nightclub or go to that go to that bar and go walking around the city like I'm good. I'm good here. Just let me be in. It was it was the same thing. It was like, come on, we'll figure it out.
We'll make it work and. That's where you feel, you feel included, you feel like a human being, you feel like they want to be with you, and that means so much. And if we can if we can change our environments to be more accessible and be easier to get around and that much how much how empowering is that for so many more people?
Oh, and you know what? That's why I do what I do, because I want everybody to be able to have this feeling of being welcome and being included that I get from my own family and. Everybody should have that. Everybody. Should be allowed to feel welcome. Not even allowed. It's not the right word. You know, to just be.
So just be welcome. Yeah. One hundred percent, I think that's. That's part of to be seen, to be heard, to be. They just interact with the world. That's part of being human and and we. It's so easy for people to not think of it, and that's why the work you're doing, it matters so much and it's so it's so important to build that awareness and. Get people to have that little bit of empathy that that those little light bulb moments.
It's not that hard to change it. It's not it doesn't look ugly. It's not that much more expensive like all those objections that they throw out there. I think those are objections of. Ignorance, they just don't know.
And and so I want to kind of go back to what you had said before about architects and designers and contractors and my saying that it's not malicious ignorance. And because it's not it's it's it's not knowing or thinking that they know. And and so therefore doing it that way. And as I go back to when I was a high school teacher, I taught science in a science lab. We had regular desks with chairs and then these taller lab benches that you stand to do your regular science experiments.
And then I had my lab bench at the front of the room with a step up and the chalkboard behind it. And. I thought I knew how to make my space accessible for the students that I taught that had disabilities, and I thought I did an OK job at it. I'm so embarrassed. Right. But I didn't know. That I could do better. And I guess that's where I'm at now, is I I look back at the way I was then, not knowing that I could have done better.
Or not realizing and and I just want people to see that they can do better and. But not in an in-your-face kind of way. That is not effective, I sit on committees. I b I've been in meetings and there are always somebody who is the negative Nelly who. Just wants to say. You know what's terrible? And offers no. Positivity or action and. It's not effective unless you come at it from the perspective of, hey, what can we do to make this better?
It just doesn't work, and I just I just want to I want to leave or I want them to leave because it's not going to work. We're not going to work, you and I. We're not going to work here if one of us has to go.
I see that, too, all the time. And it's so it's so challenging. There's a gentleman who's written a couple of books, a former Navy SEAL, pretty famous, willing, and he likes to say that when he was a SEAL, you couldn't just say this is a problem or this won't work because of X. You had to act. If you were going to complain about something or say something wasn't going to work, you had to offer multiple solutions to the problem before you could present the problem.
And I think if we all tried. To adopt that approach in our lives more often, so much, it's hard to do, but it would be so much better if we bitch and complain just out of habit, sometimes not even thinking. And and if we could just say, OK, but what how can we solve this? What's the problem there? How can we solve it?
And and let's add to that the listening piece right there, listening to truly understand what the issue is. Yeah. And then go into the OK, we know this. Let's talk about ideas. Yeah. Because that's something I've learned, too, is there is no one size fits all solution for any realm of accessibility, whether you're talking about visual impairment or or physical disability or whatever, and spinal cord injuries alone, like my level is T for and I used to do therapy with three other women, all with T four level spinal cord injuries, and we all functioned very differently and.
There is no such thing as. Disability, they're all different and everybody's needs are different, and therefore every solution is going to be slightly different. So. That working with commercial spaces, that's what makes it so challenging is because you can't. I don't like to say that, but you really can't do one set up that is going to work for everybody. So it's finding the middle ground that works for the most number of people and then figuring out other ways of accommodating or helping somebody who that doesn't work for.
Maybe it means installing. Toilet paper in two different locations, like maybe it's as simple as that. Or we were just you mentioned about the emergency call system, maybe it means having two buttons, one up, one down low, I don't know, but. Yeah, there's just there is no one answer. It's always lots of answers. It's.
But I think having having the spaces be. As flexible as they can be, right, and then. You know, your story is like you took a lot of responsibility on yourself to get stronger, to work through it, to get to the point where you're at, I think some of that responsibility at least still falls on us as individuals with a disability to say, how can I problem solve my way through something where maybe it's not ideal, but there's enough here already built in where it works.
And it's not that it's not that difficult. So I think I think it kind of yes. The more we can do, obviously, the better. But we also have the ability to. Be flexible as people and to get better at things and find better ways for ourselves where we can, we can also make it work and ask.
To right, like I I feel like you and I are kindred spirits in that maybe we have a little bit of a stubborn streak in us. Yeah. And asking for help.
But it's OK, though, it is OK and. Yeah, just. Being comfortable to do that, because sometimes that's somebody wanting to help and not knowing how. And. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why that came up, but it did. Yeah.
But like you said, kindred spirits, like we came and we we try to do, yeah, I try to do too much sometimes and I have learned over the years that. When I need help, I'm going to ask for it. I don't have. Twenty years ago, that was not me I was going to. I threw it one way or another and I wasn't going to ask and so be it, but I've learned my lesson that it helped.
It's really good to ask for help when. When you need it, yeah, I was pulling up to this hotel that I'm staying in right now and thinking, OK, I've got this small suitcase and a cooler bag. Plus, my purse, backpack and another bag that I just had random things thrown into. Oh, my going to get it all into the hotel, I can stack my suitcase on my lap and then I thought, OK, then I can put the cooler on top.
But I know I've been here before and it's always really windy and the wind always seems to be coming in the direction that I need to go in. So it's going to push me backwards and OK, I'll just go in, I'll check in, I'll give them my keys and say, hey, can you bring my bag? And I did that and they brought my bags in and up to the room and I was like, oh, and then I got my suitcase up on the bed by myself.
And I'm like, OK, so I didn't do it all, but I did a big part of it. And that's OK.
Absolutely.
Physics, physics. Get in the suitcase up on the bed. Oh. The little things, it's the little things, things. My my last question for you. Is this. What did I miss in our conversation that you think is really important to talk about? Is there something in it design wise or something in. You know how you would like to see things changing a little bit faster or a little bit better, or they could be anything or maybe there's nothing right now?
Oh, well, something that I would say, something that has come to the forefront of several conversations recently. It's National Accessibility Week here in Canada. So there's been a lot of talk with even with government level of people and. Something that just keeps coming up is the idea of the grandfather clause in in building codes and in. Building assessments and we have the Accessibility Act in Ontario, where a building doesn't have to meet current standards if it was not built in the time of those standards.
Right. So if it was built in nineteen seventy nine, then that's the code that it was built in. And if it has goofy grab bars that don't help anybody, there's no legal leg to stand on. That says those grab bars have to be changed to be in a way that is more helpful to more people and. That just sucks like. To have no. Oversight or or governing body that says, no, you really need to change this so that people can get in, so that people can use your space and and use the bathroom or access your services.
Oh, no, we don't we don't need a ramp. We don't have people like that in our store. Well, I wonder why you don't. Because they can't get in. And so when we allow for the grandfather clause kind of thing to exist in our legislations, you're still leaving out 20 to 50 percent of the population and. As a. Government. I don't think that's cool.
We have that here, too, with ADA. I agree with you.
So I don't know. I just know I don't like it.
There's a there's got to be I mean, look, technology is getting better construction techniques. Again, like most people think, it's so expensive to make something accessible, it's really not anymore for the most part, if you're having to tear down a whole building. OK, so maybe you get maybe the government sets up some some some grants or some funds to help with that process. Maybe in that remodeling process, they can reinvent their space to bring more people in there and get their money back later.
Like there's there's always. There's always has been, there's always an angle, there's always yeah, there's there's a there's a boatload of no cost, low cost solutions that you can start with. You're right. It might be you don't jump to installing an elevator. That's that's not your first thing. Let's look at what else we can find that will serve more people and allow them to gain. Whatever access information related to whatever it is that you do, and that's the place to start, right?
We've we've started this conversation, you and I, about what are the three things that you hear most often. And it's what do I need to do? How much is it going to cost me is always the second question. And how much space is it going to take up and all of those kinds of things. But I think it really is just the question is the people should be asking themselves is what do I not know? And how can I figure that out?
But what am I not doing that I could be doing? In my home. For my future self, my future family or in my business or in my municipality. What am I not doing that I could be doing, because it probably is a is a good list of things that aren't going to cost hardly anything. To get started, yeah. There was thinking about it, yeah, and I would encourage I mean, again, I'm I'm not I'm not an expert yet in this space the way you are, but.
I've been looking at it more critically in the last six months to a year, and I ask myself when I look at what we work in custom homes right with with my business, and I was like, why did this person decide that steps were a good idea here? It just doesn't make sense. Like it doesn't add to the design. It elevates a space for no apparent reason. Like what is the purpose? They're just there to be there because you didn't know what else to do.
Like, why are they why are these things here? So I think more more intentionality and more thoughtfulness in why we're doing a design or making a building a certain way would also help. Do you think that's do you think that's right?
Absolutely. And like from a new build design perspective, there is no excuse for. Any of the space being inaccessible and. Being ugly right like that, that is accessibilities look like it's institutional, it's going to look like a hospital room. Not so, not unless you decide to make it that way, but you don't, and my favorite. Compliment of my own home is from a. Guy who works down the road coming to see my accessible kitchen because they were going to do a little bit of a renovation in an older part of a building to make an accessible kitchen that for the staff.
And so he came to see my house and he said to me, Julie, I didn't know that you used a wheelchair. I would not know that this is an accessible home.
That's amazing, and I was like, just that's actually it's a beautiful like No one, it's beautiful. Oh, yeah, it happens to be accessible. When, when, when?
Yeah, yeah, it's the movement is coming, I can see the momentum, I saw it at the Liverpool conference. And you know what I would also say to to the construction industry is you can get in front of it now and become the experts where you can or you can fall behind very, very soon because it's here and it's coming and they can get in front of it, do it right the first time and not have to go back to rip out the drywall because the backing wasn't done properly or whatever, take out the steps that they installed like nobody has.
Nobody in the construction industry has time to go back and fix mistakes. Right. Like you guys are working. Whatever nose to the ground all the time. Do it right the first time. Yeah, absolutely.
One hundred percent. This was your awesome. Thank you so much. Where where can I look forward to doing this again? I look forward to collaborating with you on so many things moving forward. But where can people learn more about you? What's your YouTube channel? What's your social media? What's your website? Give us everything.
OK, so my YouTube channel is too lethargic and so just make sure you spell Thatcherites a w, c, h. You OK? Because people always want to throw in an extra seat and it just doesn't belong. So I'm Julie Falchuk on YouTube. I am. My website is Julie Sawchuk. So that's because I'm up here in Canada and my Instagram is like, so awesome, Julie, my license plate is awesome. So anyways, I'm awesome. Julie on Instagram and Sawchuk Accessible Solutions is the name of my business and that's my Facebook.
I kind of really should just put it all together, make it one thing, but basically do is where you find me. Just put that in and you'll find something that if they go to your website, they can book a time for you to speak and yes, absolutely find my books there as well. I've got printed in Canada versions of both of those space and building better bathrooms in my home waiting for me to send to you. But you can also find them on Amazon.
Yeah. Book a time to book a call with me. Book a time for me to speak to your organization next week. I'm speaking to Dayson like the vacuum company Dicen so pumped. We're talking about accessible bathrooms and they're hand dryers. Interesting. Yes, and I'm going to be talking to them and working with them on their next design for accessible hand dryers, like the combo tap, soap and dryer thing, all in the sink in one space.
I've never actually used one where they're all in one space. So I'm I'm just excited to dove into that. It's going to be great. Yeah. So fun things fun, new things always being thrown at me, people wanting to like. Oh, so let's talk about this, OK? Yesterday a guy called me up. Let's talk about bathrooms on airplanes. I'm like, yes, let's talk about bathrooms on airplanes.
Let's talk about airplanes. Do.
Oh yeah.
Yes, that's awesome. That would be great to see. I mean. I don't think bathrooms on airplanes are good for anybody.
Gustavo, thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun and I'm so glad you connected with me. And we have made this happen. I great.
You're very welcome. Thank you.
We are going to talk again for sure.
Absolutely.
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