Maya Chupkov
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Maya is the producer, creator, editor, and host of Proud Stutter, a podcast about shifting the narrative around stuttering and embracing verbal diversity. She is a writer and community organizer with over eight years of strategic communications experience in the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. As a woman who stutters, she is a stuttering advocate working to shift societal norms around stuttering and lifting up marginalized voices. Maya is working on a book of short stories about growing up with a stutter, women representation, and her journey podcasting. Her full-time job is the Media & Democracy Program Manager for California Common Cause where she advocates for journalists who serve communities and neighborhoods in California. She lives in San Francisco with her fiancé and dog Lil’ Stu.
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Maya Chupkov.m4a - powered by Happy Scribe
Hi, everyone. This is Gustavo Serafini, the host of the enabled disabled podcast. I am a middle aged Latin American male. I have dark brown hair, combed to the middle, and I'm wearing a blue polo shirt. I'm in my living room right now, so you will see some blinds behind me and some drapes. And we are really excited to have Maya Chipcov on the show today. She is the host of a fantastic podcast called Proud Stutter, and Maya is here to share her story and her journey with her, coming to become more comfortable and becoming an advocate for the stuttering community. Maya, it is a pleasure to have you. Thank you for being here today.
Thank you so much for having me, Gustavo. So my name is Maya, and I am wearing a black and white plaid shirt. I have blonde hair, a fair complexion. I'm wearing glasses, and I am in my Officepodcast room. I have a closet in the back with a white stripe over it, and I also have a colour coated bookshelf with the plants behind me. So glad to be here.
Awesome. So, Maya, we have a lot to talk about today, and it's going to be a really good show. Can you tell us a little bit? You were born with your stutter, correct?
Yeah, so I was born with my stutter. Ever since I first started talking, I had speech issues or, you know, I had speech disfluencies. My first language is actually Hebrew. And then as soon as I started learning English, that's when my stuttering happened. So around three years old, I don't have a lot of memories from that time. This is all information that was communicated to me by my mom, so she started noticing my stuttering in preschool.
Okay, was it something that you went to get some speech therapy for what happened after your mom your parents noticed that it was happening?
Yeah, at first my mom didn't really do anything because it's pretty normal for when kids start talking, they don't have perfect speech. So she didn't start thinking about getting me speech therapy until elementary school, and so she had me do speech therapy through the school. The school had a speech therapist, and so I would get pulled out of class and I would go to speech therapy again. I don't really have a lot of memories around being in speech therapy in elementary school. I do slightly remember hating that I would get called out of class because I really liked school and I didn't like to miss out on projects and homework. I was a very dedicated and committed student, so I just love I didn't like missing class. That's like, my only memory associated with that. That's a period. And then my mom since I complained about getting pulled out of a class, my mom was trying to find a private therapist that we can go to after school so I wouldn't have to miss class. And so I started taking speech therapy privately in middle school for, I think it was almost a year. And then my mom noticed improvement in my speech, so we stopped going to that therapist.
Okay. And I know you talk a lot about your podcast. You ask your guest a great question, which is what is your relationship with your stutter? What is your connection to it? Can you kind of walk us through how in the different phases of growing up, what your connection and your relationship was to your stutter? And then we can get into all the really interesting things that you've been doing now and this new movement that happened inside of you.
My relationship with my stutter has been very wishy washy because I would go through moments in my life where I was fluent and then there were other moments when my stuttering would spring up. So I just tried for most of my life to just hide my stutter as much as possible because I just didn't want to deal with that part of myself. I tried so hard to just if it came up, I would just ignore it and just keep going and I would do everything I could with my speech to not come off as a stutter. So when I came out and this is speeding up a little bit, but I'll go back but this is relevant in that when I came out as a stutter, but people were shocked because they didn't think I'd have stuttered. They just thought a lot of people thought that I just was slower, my speech was slower, that I would think really hard about what I was saying and I'd pause a lot. So they didn't really associate that with stuttering. They just thought it was for a different reason, either because I was shy or other things.
And I'd rather be labelled that then as a stutter in that time, especially through middle school and high school, in college even too, I hated my stutter most of my life. I thought it definitely got in the way of pursuing a lot of things that I wanted to pursue, like being a broadcast journalist, going into journalism. I tried acting for a little bit. I really wanted it to be in my school's play, but I was too nervous to try out because usually you try it out in front of an audience. And I avoided situations where I would come off as being a stutter. So I think that is where the true disability comes from, is just all the avoiding strategies and all the things I avoided throughout my life. And I always just had this fear deep down that I would never be successful, I would never get married, I would never do all these things because who would want to listen to my stutter? Like, that's literally what I thought my whole life. So, yeah, it's been a painful journey up until recently.
And did things start to change in college, did you start to open up to close friends a little bit more, like, as you got older? I remember in college, for me that was a big moment of, I don't want to hide this part of my identity. This is about coming to terms with myself. Did you start to see that change in college or did it happen a little later?
I opened up to a few people in college and this was like my very close friends. I had three really close girlfriends, and so I did open up a little bit, but not really at all. I think I just did it very nonchalantly and it was like one conversation and then we never talked about it again. But yeah, in college I still was not accepting of my stutter. I still tried to avoid it, and it wasn't until very recently that I was able to really talk about it. And I think a big part of why in hindsight, just looking back, that I didn't open up about my stutter is I didn't really have a lot of close friends growing up. I switched schools in fourth grade. I just never had that good group of friends that really got to know the real me. So throughout grade school, it was just very surface level. So I didn't even really have like, if I would have had a good group of friends, maybe I would have talked about it more, but I didn't really have close friends until college stuttering, because having a deep friendship, it does require some level of opening up.
Who knows if my stutter had an impact on that?
I think that's a really interesting point. And in one of your latest episodes, you talked about I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the words here, but in San Francisco there was recently, like Stuttering Awareness Week, right, that you helped and you went and you spoke to and you mentioned that when you and a group of other people went to speak there that everybody felt safe. And so I think there's this idea of creating a safe space where we can feel like we're seen, we're heard, we're accepted for who we are, and creating those communities and those bonds with people is not always easy. And I think that the more we can do that, the more we can be ourselves and be open and be vulnerable and not be judged for those things.
Yeah, exactly. And as soon as I opened up for the first time to people outside of my family and close friends, I just felt the most amazing feeling. I felt understood. People had that AHA moment like, oh, I see that this person in a whole new way, because I think there's always been some sort of wall in between me and people in really connecting with them because I've always kept such a big part of myself hidden. And so as soon as I opened up that first time I felt that true connection that has been so hard for me to establish just growing up, because there has been that barrier I've set up for myself. And ever since that first opening up, I feel so much more understood, not only from the Stuttering community, but people I've known my whole life. They see me. For me, it was a very life changing moment. And I just wish that upon everyone, whether you stutter or not, to experience that sense of like, that you're really showing yourself unapologetically. And one of the goals for passing the local resolution in San Francisco for the city to recognise the second week of May as National Starting Awareness Week was giving that moment to other people who stutter in my community.
And every single Stutterer that spoke at that rally at City Hall, they were on that podium, they shared their story and the Stuttering community was behind them. I gave them that gift and they just loved every minute of it, because for a lot of them, it was the first time they were sharing about their Stutter on a public stage.
That's really powerful and amazing that you did that. Can you talk us through a little bit about the first time that you came out and told people about your stutter? And was this something that was building inside of you for a while, where you started to feel like, I need to do this. This is something that I want to do this, and why? What were kind of the things that were happening and the reasons that you decided to take this bold and amazing step forward?
It started with me being miserable at my previous job, so that was step one. I felt that I needed to have something outside of my job because it was really hard to get up in the morning. I didn't feel like I was doing work that fulfilled me. And so I always had this idea in the back of my mind that I wanted to do some creative project and I had this mapping project I wanted to do and I had the podcast idea and all these other artistic expression projects that I've just been writing down and just ended up with a podcast project because Cynthia one of my best friends. She also wanted to do a podcast. And so we decided to partner up on Proud Stutter. And Proud Stutter, that idea really came from my fiance. He's always been very curious about my Stutter. He always asks about it, like, oh, why do you think you stuttered so much that day versus right now? He's just always like, very so he offered me that idea and as soon as he said it, I was sold and I brought Cynthia on board and we started brainstorming.
But I didn't really start really solidifying Proud Stutter until that first moment of opening up to a group of strangers. And that was interesting because I knew part of the process of starting with Proud Stutter was starting to open up about it in the spaces I was in. And so my first opportunity was I was in a meeting with this group I'm a part of with the Centre for Storybased Strategy. I forget exactly what type of group it was, but it might have been like some narrative workshop or something. And there was a small groups portion, and we all kind of went around the zoom, and I opened up about my Stutter, and I just got the most amazing response. And so after that moment, I started opening up at all these other groups. I got the same response every time, just like appreciation and understanding and all that. And so those moments of opening up really solidified my commitment to starting Proud Starter. Because you're a podcaster, a lot of work goes into it, and it's really easy to start a podcast and then not to go through with it. So I knew I needed to build a very solid foundation of planning, strategizing, really being focused on the mission and the goals.
And I think all of that planning really shows through in the podcast because it's very clear on what it is, who it's for and what we are trying to do.
Absolutely. Just out of curiosity, do you have a marketing background?
Yes.
Okay, what got you interested in that?
So I fell into PR public relations. Right out of college, I fell into it. It really wanted to be in PR, but it was the first job that hired me after college, so I was like, okay. And I moved to San Francisco and started my journey there. And I didn't really like it too much. I switched jobs a lot. I still stayed in communications because that's kind of where my experience was, even though I didn't really like it. But I learned so many skills. Having a Stutter throughout that whole time period was so hard. I had so much anxiety all the time at work because you're judged a lot for how you communicate verbally. And so that was really tough. And I think deep down that was one of the main reasons why I didn't want to do comms anymore, because there's so much pressure to sound a certain way, to sound professional and that, you know, you're talking about. And so I made the career switch after my last job income that I hated to do policy. And so now I'm in a job where I'm just doing policy and it's like amazing. It's like what I've always wanted to do.
And of course it's good to have.com experience in any job, including podcasting. And I feel like because of my comms background, I was really able to once I was ready to launch Proud Stutter and did all the heavy work ahead of time, I was really able to launch it super far and wide because of those skills. So very happy I pulled through. I didn't quit. I kept going. And now I'm here and it's great.
Absolutely. Those marketing PR, all of that knowledge that you picked up during those years is going to go with you wherever you go, no matter what you do. It's super useful.
Yeah.
What advice do you give to people who are either currently employed or who are looking for work? Maybe they're coming out of school and they have a stutter. Do you have any advice for them as to whether they should disclose it, whether they should talk about it openly with their employer? What's your take on that?
My take is that it depends. Everyone is on their own journey. And for me, it's best for me in my journey now to always disclose and to always be open about it. That wasn't me, like, five years ago. If someone would have told me that, I would have been like, no way. So it's really a step by step journey. And I think the first step to take as someone who may be in a stage where they haven't really opened up to anyone about their stutter. That they're still kind of able to hide it. Because I was there like a year and a half ago. I would say that just take one small step. Whether that's listening in on a stuttering support group or listening to an episode of a podcast. Reading an article. To just slowly get yourself in your own way. You can start engaging the stuttering community and kind of see what fits well with you. If, let's say you try it and it doesn't feel well right now, just take a break, maybe try again in like a month, and you'll slowly kind of feel out where you feel comfortable. But really, it's that first step that's the hardest.
And for me, my first step was that idea of doing a podcast about stuttering. Like, that gave me energy thinking about it. And then that first step and being like, I want to do this, or there's like, excitement in me. It started there. And so my advice would just be take a baby step. Don't feel like you have to go all in and proud. Stutter could be a great entry point. There's so many people in our community that I've never opened up about their stutter before. And now we have these monthly community meetings on Zoom where people can come, listen, engage, whatever. And in our first one, we had someone that spoke about her starter for the first time in her life. And so it's a journey and we all are taking our own steps, and sometimes it takes a little bit longer for people.
Yeah, I think that's great advice. So you knew you were ready because the idea of having a podcast and talking about living your life as someone with a stutter and doing the advocacy and building this community that excited you. So you were like, AHA, it's time to do something about this now.
Exactly.
So I think that's great advice. I think it's safe to say that you believe it's beneficial. Right. When you look back on your life now, hiding sounds like it was more of an effort and more energy and more of a drag being wasted. Right. You had all of this anxiety around, I have to hide this. I can't tell anybody that has been released in a really positive way now that you're not doing that anymore.
Yes. I feel like a new transformative version of myself, and I'm still trying to unlearn so many of the automatic responses to my stutter. Like, I still catch myself when I'm about to stutter, to pause and then say it again. And so there are these moments where I'm trying to be as present as I can in my speech. So I catch myself when I try to stop my stutter, and I try to just stutter instead of just stopping it, like I'm trained myself to do. I want to stutter more so I'm not constantly trying to overexert myself.
Interesting. With your stutter, is there like a pattern or any kind of when you're stressed or when things are tense, like, is there any pattern as to why it happens or doesn't happen? Or is it just something that it comes and goes as it pleases?
Yeah, it comes and goes as it pleases. Although there have been stressful situations where I do notice I stutter more. Usually when I'm on a podcast, I stutter more. Although I haven't really been stuttering on this podcast, which is interesting, and then if I have a really stressful day at work or if I'm on a really stressful call, I'll stutter a lot. But today I feel very calm. I've had stressful things have happened today, but I feel calm around it for some reason. And so that sense of calm helps just because yeah, that's just what I've noticed. But overall, my stutter is very unpredictable. Even I can be the most Zen person or Zen mood that day, and I'm still stuttering, like, a lot. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly how my stuttering works. But you will notice I say a lot of filler words like and that's definitely a strategy that I use to help hide my stutter. I do pause a lot, and yeah, I pause mid stutter. So instead of just stuttering, I just pause and then take a breath and then try it again. So in that moment, I caught myself and I'm like, just stutter.
And so it's so complicated, but, I.
Mean, life is complicated, and we're all working through it the best we can and trying to be, I don't know, better versions of ourselves or just figure out who we are even more and see the contributions that we want to make. What is your goal for season two of the podcast?
Yeah, season two. I'm so excited, you guys. I've already started interviewing a lot of folks, including I had Gustavo on as a cohost. And what's different about season two is since Cynthia, my co host for season one, is no longer with us because she has a lot going on and this was kind of just a fun project that we did for season one. So now that I'm on my own for season two, I changed things up because one of the things my listeners loved about season one is that outside of perspective that Cynthia brought, she asked questions as a person who doesn't stutter, and I feel like that is such a key part of helping others outside of the stuttering community. Join in on the journey and learn with all of us for season two. Every episode of season two will have a co host that doesn't stutter and they will help me interview our guest who stutters. So we'll have a guest for each episode. Each guest will have a stutter and talk about a certain angle or topic around stuttering and yeah, it's going to be really exciting. Season two is launching in July.
It's kind of a surprise right now, what day, but towards the end of July will be season two and I'm still not even sure how many episodes because I feel like I keep finding a new person to interview and I'm just like, it's hard to stop. So we'll see.
It is. I think you've said it before and I've said it too, but people don't realise how much work it is to do a podcast. It's an enormous amount of work. It's totally worth it. But that was the biggest thing that I didn't realise is just how much work it takes to make it happen.
Yeah, but once you find something that you're like, AHA, this is it. It's so fun. It's such a fun medium. And you meet other podcasters too, and you're just, like, bonded because you just share this common artistic and creative and passion for what you do. I love the podcast community a lot because of that.
Absolutely. You become friends with people, you become friends with some guests and you build these relationships and connections that you never expected before. It's great. It's a great way to meet fantastic people. In terms of the advocacy side, what are you working on moving forward that you want people to be aware of?
Yeah, so we're doing a lot. In addition to season two, which is already a full time job just doing a podcast, we're also building up our advocacy programme at Proud Stutter. And so the San Francisco resolution was just city, not number one. Our goal is to do another round of those for International Stuttering Awareness Day. I'm already working with folks in Denver, Colorado and a city in Australia on doing some sort of local resolution for International Starting Awareness Day. I hope to get a few more local jurisdictions to also do something and also of course, for next year's National Stuttering Awareness Week, I want to have more cities, I want to help more cities do what we did in San Francisco. And so, really, this next year is just going to be building out that programme, putting on trainings for how to pass a local resolution in your city. It's for the starting community, but if other people want to do their own holidays around their own special day, you can apply those skills to any issue. So that's going to be launching soon, as soon as I get the funding for it. And then I also want to do, like, more educational events to spread more awareness, especially across because stuttering and disability justice issues, they cross so many sectors like education and even how public speaking is taught and how so many things are taught.
And, like, stuttering is everywhere. And so every community, whether it's climate justice or ethnic groups, like, every community has a starter in it. And so I think if we can form a solid base of stuttering, it could really touch a lot of issues.
Absolutely. And what's the pitch if you're going to a city and saying, look, you should do this, what's the main reasons for what's the why is it so important to have this passed?
Yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to the community. If there are people who stutter and they have a community there and they're ready to put in the work to get a resolution and passed, like I said earlier, just being in community with fellow stutters, there's nothing more powerful than that, because those in your community like that in person time is just such a special bond. And so I want everyone across the globe to experience that sense of community with their fellow stutters right there in their neighbourhoods. So goal one is just like empowerment and really helping activate the stuttering advocates in their own backyard. And two, the awareness piece is huge. After SF passed that resolution, there were so many articles that came out around that that really helped to spread awareness and it touched a lot of people that my podcast hadn't touched before, because a lot of people, they read news, they listen and then they don't really listen to podcasts, so they're not able to find me. But there are all of these different avenues to spread awareness and touch people who stutter that may not have any idea how to get involved or that there's even other stutters in their own backyard.
And since San Francisco passed that, and since we've been in news articles, I've had so many San Francisco stutter email me and say, oh, my gosh, I want to meet you. Let's get coffee. And so there really is that community building element that comes with doing something like that.
That's a great answer. Really powerful. Liberating the work that you're doing on policy right now, I don't know what you can talk about or what you can't talk about. But I'm curious to know, has it helped you plan out this advocacy more effectively? Like, what have you learned in working in policy that you can share with the audience about how we can go out and make things better?
Yes, so in my communications experience, there was some policy and organising things that I also learned and did. And so I was very familiar with the San Francisco political landslide gate and so that really helped get the resolution passed. I know almost all the elected officials here, so that was really helpful. But elected officials in any community, I think most of them will be open to supporting disability justice groups like Stuttering and others. And so it's really just that introduction that you'll be surprised. I know it's intimidating to think about meeting with an elected official and that their staff, but they're just people, they're humans, they're really not that intimidating once you meet them. And so just having that first intro meeting, you could call your local elected leader, whether it's city council is probably the best place to start, and just having that conversation, you'd be surprised how open they will be. And you never know. Like, use your community around you because there's probably someone among your community that has some sort of connection to someone on city council, so use those connections. That's how Denver, Colorado was able to get a commitment from their city council.
Someone in the community knew someone on city council, so you just never know. And I also made a local resolution toolkit that kind of lays out step by step on my website and so in that it goes step by step. And then I also offer to consult with you if you want to strategize who to reach out to, because it's not always obvious who the best sponsor will be. There's a lot of city council members and so I could strategize with you. I do have a lot of connections to people that do policy across the country, so I'm always happy to use those relationships. And really Proudstudder is both a podcast and it's also, for lack of a better phrase, like a technical assistance arm for policy or communications or any of that stuff to help you get your issues out there around Stuttering that's really.
Powerful and really interesting. So, yeah, I will definitely be reaching out to you offline for that. But that's a really cool background that you have and really interesting work that you're doing that I wasn't aware of. What is it? And it can be one thing, it can be three things, it can be whatever the most important things are in your mind that you wish we'll ask. The question that school teachers, what should school teachers know about teaching better and recognising the students who do Stutter and the things that they can do to help them rather than do the opposite, which is. Make them feel excluded or shame them, or all the shitty stories we hear about too often.
My advice, and I actually just interviewed an elementary school teacher who stutters for season two, and that episode will answer your question to a T. But for this episode, for this, I'll answer it now in my own words. Creating a space in your classroom and dedicating, like, maybe it's once a week, but having a weekly conversation on these different disabilities that we might be in contact with, whether it's stuttering, neurodiversity, there's all of these things that we aren't educated about, like stuttering. You could listen to a person and not know they had a stutter, but maybe if we talked about it more, you could be able to understand that and how to notice a stutter and how to support people who have a stutter. So I think teachers really have an opportunity to make those spaces for those conversations on a weekly basis. Whether it's tied to National Starting Awareness Week. Like having the school have a calendar of all these different holidays. And using that as an opportunity to have these conversations and just dedicating a little time each week to having. Like. A moment where people can just share about that and that might help people who have disabilities in that classroom be more open about it and it might literally change their lives.
Yes. Great answer. And if we switch the question over to employers, what do you think they could be doing better in their places of work to recognise support? Because to me, I know that not everybody works this way, but as somebody who owns a small business, I really want to make sure that everybody who works with me feels like they're being listened to, feels like they're being given the opportunity to thrive as much as they possibly can. Right. I don't want people to hide, I don't want people to feel ashamed. I want to actualize their potential. I want them to and in order to do that, they have to feel comfortable. They have to feel like you're in a safe environment to do so.
Yeah, for employers, it's a little similar, but more specific around the first thing I would encourage every employer to do is to ask before the interview, do you have any accessibility needs? I haven't quite worked out the exact language, but for people who stutter, having extra time in an interview is huge. 30 minutes interviews just don't work for us. I know employers are strapped for time, but if they really care about accessibility, like their website says they do, they will make that accommodation. So asking if anyone has accessibility needs, maybe having a statement around here, we recognise there are these types of disabilities out there. If you identify with any of them or want to talk about any of them ahead of the interview, we're happy to do so. Something like that. I haven't really quite landed on the exact language, but I'm sure there's someone already doing that out there. But yeah, more time for interviews. So that would be, like, one of the points I'm working on. I really want to try to develop a more comprehensive kind of out of push around employers and what they can do better. And that's definitely one of the big ones.
And what about when you're doing I mean, you're obviously comfortable with it now. A lot of people aren't comfortable public speaking, period, or speaking in front of a group of people. But when you are doing that on your job, or when you are doing that in front of people, what can the employers do to make that more effective for the whole team?
Yeah, I think one of the things that I've encouraged my employer to do is to make space for people or for having management or the leaders of the organisation recognise having monthly calls were recognising. All these different holidays like that's. One place to start. Like May is Speech and Hearing Awareness Month or something. So having, like, some sort of space, we can talk about and educate ourselves around those types of things. And there might be staff members that want to be open about it, some not, but just making space for those types of conversations, I think it can go a long way. But, yeah, it's hard because everyone is on their own journey and it's hard to really think about something that will work for everyone. But that's definitely one way and one strategy that I've been trying to get my employer to do.
But at the very least, if we kind of think through the school, the answer at school and with the employers, it's being open to educating, being open to creating this space where people feel comfortable. If they want to share, great. If they don't, that's fine too. But it's giving them more opportunity and more spaces where there's the potential to bond and the potential to feel safe in talking about what it is that we're going through.
Yes.
Okay, so, Maya, my last question today, or second to last question is what have I missed in this conversation that you feel is important to talk about?
Honestly, I think we covered everything. I can't really think of anything else to add. I feel like we had such a great conversation and it really hit everything that I've been thinking about wanting to share.
Okay, awesome. And then lastly, how can people connect to you, reach out to you, find out more about you?
Yeah, so the best way to find out everything, all the things, is proudstudder.com. There you can find our episodes, find news articles, find how to sign up for our mailing list, all our social media, email, all that stuff. Proudsteader.com.
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for the time, for the energy, for doing such awesome work. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. And I hope you come back.
Thank you for having me.
Helpful Links:
Website: www.proudstutter.com
Local Resolution Toolkit: PASSING A STUTTERING AWARENESS WEEK.pdf